https://www.youtube.com/embed/KF-9VJNCpok
JULIA DAVIS, FOR THE DAILY BEAST, AND FOUNDER OF THE RUSSIAN MEDIA MONITOR. JULIA, REPORTING ON RUSSIAN TELEVISION, WHAT DID YOU SEE ON THE CHANGE IN THIS, AND SOME OF THESE PEOPLE WERE SAYING FOR THE WAR STARTED THAT THEY COULD DO THIS IN THREE DAYS. >> AT LEAST ONE OF THEM WAS. ONE OF THE EXPERTS THAT SPOKE OUT IN FAVOR OF ENDING THE CONFLICT, THE SOONER THE BETTER. IT WAS A RADICAL CHANGE. EITHER WAY, AND THEY’RE TAKING QUITE A RISK WITH THAT WAY. >> IT WAS THE PUNCHING BAG OF SOME OF THESE PUNDITS AND RUSSIAN TELEVISION.THERE TO GIVE THE VIEW THAT THEY COULD, THEN, TRY TO Knock down. YOU COULD KNOW SOME OF THEM, BUT WHAT CAN YOU MAKE OF WHAT THEY WERE SAYING LAST NIGHT? >> THEY Get IN THE PUNCH BACK, BUT PEOPLE LIKE ME, ARE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DISAPPEARED FROM HIS SHOWS OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS. SO, 3 weeks ago, I COULD HAVE Goes on, AND SAID EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID. I WOULD HAVE BEEN Shrieked AT FOR IT. BUT, I WOULD HAVE BEEN Capable TO SAY IT. THE FACT THAT IT IS A Big deal, THAT SOMEONE CAN SAY IT FOR 30 SECONDS ON RUSSIAN TV NOW, SHOWS JUST HOW MUCH THINGS HAVE CHANGED. THEY ARE Apprehensive ABOUT CONTROLLING THIS MESSAGE, SO, VANCOUVER DON’T AND ANYBODY, SAYING ANYTHING THAT DOESN’T FIT THE PARTY. >> WHAT ARE YOU FINDING, FINDING OUT MOSCOW RECENTLY? YOU ARE IN MOSCOW, JOURNALISTIC PROGRAM, WORKING IN MOSCOW, JUST GETTING STARTED, HAD YOUR HOPES TO SPENDING A YEAR THERE, HAD TO LEAVE VERY QUICKLY. WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW, WITH THE CONTROL OF INFORMATION THERE? >> SO, IT HAS BEEN INTERESTING, BECAUSE AT FIRST, WHEN THINGS BROKE OUT, THERE WAS A FAIRLY FREE FLOW OF INFORMATION.OBVIOUSLY, THERE WAS A RUSSIAN STATE CONTROL OVER THINGS LIKE TELEVISION CHANNELS, BUT RECENTLY, I HAD PEOPLE AND MESSAGING ME ON INSTAGRAM, WHO I KNOW WHO ARE OPPOSED TO THE WAR EFFORTS, AND POST NEW YORK TIMES REPORTING ON THE BOMBING OF THE TURN AT A HOSPITAL IN MARION POLL. THEY ARE Simply SAYING, I HEARD THIS WAS FAKE NEWS. IT WAS IN INDEPENDENT NEWS OUTLETS THAT SAY MOSCOW IS BEING SHUT DOWN, AND YOU CAN Watch OTHER INDEPENDENT News Stations Drawing THE REPORTERS OUT OF RUSSIA, AND IT’S BECOMING HARDER, AND HARDER, TO GET GOOD INFORMATION ABOUT THE CONFLICT, IN UKRAINE, RIGHT NOW. >> MOLLY, WHAT DID YOU FIND ABOUT HOW THE PROTESTS ARE ORGANIZED, OR WHETHER THEY ARE GENERATED SPONTANEOUSLY, NOW THAT THERE ISN’T A REAL LEADERSHIP STRUCTURE FOR PROTESTS? >> BOTH PROTESTERS I TALKED TO, AND PEOPLE WHO WERE INVOLVED IN HELPING THOSE PROTESTERS ONCE THEY HAD BEEN DETAINED, ARE NOW SAYING THAT WHAT IS HAPPENING IS UNIQUE.I THINK SOME PEOPLE WOULD BE SURPRISED TO HEAR, AT THESE ARE SOME OF THE MOST ARRESTS, INDICATING THAT THESE ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST PROTESTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN RUSSIA. BECAUSE, IF YOU SEE THE IMAGES, THEY DON’T LOOK NEARLY AS LARGE AS THE PROTESTS FOR NAVALNY ABOUT A YEAR AGO, AND IN 2011. THESE ARE SPONTANEOUS, THESE ARE DECENTRALIZED, THESE ARE BEING ORGANIZED AGAINST TELEVISION CHANNELS, AND THESE Technique ARE BEING ABLE TO EVADE THE CRACKDOWN ON THE RIGHT TO ASSEMBLY IN RUSSIA .>> WHAT WILL YOU MAKE OF THOSE RUSSIAN PUNDITS WHO WERE SAYING, LAST NIGHT, THE FACT THAT IT DOESN’T SOUND LIKE THEY WERE DOING A GOOD CHEER LEANING IN THE WAY THAT LETTER PUTIN WOULD WANT? >> MY EXPECTATION, IS THOSE Pundit WHO WERE DOING THAT YOU’RE LIVING, BUT WHAT VLADIMIR PUTIN WOULD WANT, WILL NOT BE INVITED BACK ON THE SHOW’S. LIKE I SAID, 3 weeks ago, I WOULD GET Summons TO GO ON SHOWS LIKE THAT, ESSENTIALLY, EVERY DAY. PEOPLE JUST LIKE ME HAVE BEEN EXCLUDED FOR A REASON. I Appreciate MANY PEOPLE STILL ON THE SHOWS WHO I KNOW, AND I KNOW WHY THEY ARE THERE. THEY HAVE, COMPLETELY, ELIMINATED ANYONE WHO DESCENDS, AND I Consider KAREN WHO DISSENTED, JUST A LITTLE BIT, SOON, WILL DISAPPEAR FROM TV SCREENS. >> JULIA, WHAT IS YOUR ASSESSMENT AND THE PROPAGANDA WALL IS RIGHT NOW, IS IT STRONGER THAN IT WAS BEFORE THE WAR STARTED IN UKRAINE? ARE THE CRACKS IN IT? WHAT IS HAPPENING? >> THE PROPAGANDA WALL IS HIGHER THAN EVER. BUT, I Consider, IT WILL Effect THE OPPOSITE EFFECT.PEOPLE WILL START TO WONDER WHY THINGS HAVE CHANGED SO DRASTICALLY. NOT ONLY IN THE TERMS OF ECONOMIC DOWNFALL THAT RUSSIA IS FACING, BUT, Also WHY, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THESE ALTERNATIVE SOURCES ARE NOT AVAILABLE, AND HAVING GROWN UP IN THE SOVIET UNION, I KNOW THAT THINGS LIKE THAT MADE US WONDER MORE ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE HIDING. SO, I Belief THAT WILL BE THE ACTUAL EFFECT OF WHAT PUTIN WILL ACHIEVE. EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE FROM WHAT HE IS TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. >> JULIA, WHEN THEY WONDER WHERE THEY’RE GETTING THIS ONE NOTE STORY, WHAT CAN THEY DO TO FIND OTHER INFORMATION NOW? >> THEY STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET AND THEY CAN DO WHAT OTHER BRAVE RUSSIANS ARE DOING AND THAT IS RISKING THEIR LIVES AND FREEDOM TO PROTEST AND WITH TIME, THERE WILL BE MORE OF THEM TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. FOR NOW, THEY STILL HAVE A WAY TO FIND INFORMATION AND THERE ARE OUTLETS THAT CONTINUE TO BROADCAST IN RUSSIAN DESPITE FACING FINES, PENALTIES, AND BANS.AND I THINK IT WILL MAKE A PARAMOUNT DIFFERENCE. >> MOLLY, WHAT DID YOU DISCOVER IN YOUR REPORTING ABOUT HOW PEOPLE ARE COMMUNICATING AND HOW THEY ARE GETTING INFORMATION DESPITE THE PROPAGANDA WAR? >> PEOPLE ARE VERY ACTIVE ON TELEGRAM CHANNELS THEY ARE SHARING USE WITH EACH OTHER. OFTENTIMES, THEY WILL START UP A PRIVATE CHANNEL SO IT DOESN’T GET THE CENSORSHIP. AND IF THAT ONE IS Infiltrated BY THE AUTHORITIES, THEY WILL SHUT THAT WENT DOWN AND START A NEW ONE. THIS IS A VERY SPONTANEOUS AND KIND OF HAPPENING PERSON TO PERSON. AND PEOPLE ARE STILL USING VPN’S EVEN THOUGH THERE HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTS TO SHUT THOSE DOWN. SOME ARE STILL WORKING. PEOPLE WILL USE VPN’S TO ACCESS THINGS LIKE TWITTER AND FACEBOOK THAT Approvals HAVE RESTRICTED ACCESS TO. >> MICHAEL, WE SAW PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY TODAY, ONCE, AGAIN IN A STATEMENT DO IT TWICE.THE SECOND VERSION WASN’T RUSSIAN, AND HE WAS DIRECTING IT DIRECTLY TO RUSSIAN TROOPS AND THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE. ABOUT THESE Assaults ON Hospitals FOR, EXAMPLE. HOW MUCH OF THAT WILL GET THROUGH? >> AMID A VERY MINIMAL AMOUNT. THE PEOPLE THAT MOLLY DESCRIBING, PEOPLE ARE FOLLOWING ALTERNATIVE SOURCES USING A VPN, THEY WILL SEE IT. THE PROBLEM IS THEY ARE Tiny minority. SOME PEOPLE WILL GO OUT ON THE STREETS, IT WON’T BE ENOUGH. SOME PEOPLE WILL EMIGRATE, IT WILL BE DETRIMENTAL TO THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY. BUT THIS Place IN WHICH THE KREMLIN ESSENTIALLY COMPLETELY CONTROLS PROPAGANDA, ESSENTIALLY COMPLETELY CONTROLS INFORMATION, CAN CONTINUE FOR YEARS.I AGREE THAT IT IS A Unstable Organization. Up till now, THEY AT LEAST HAD THE ILLUSION OF FREE SPEECH. THAT ILLUSION IS GONE. BUT THEY CAN MAINTAIN THIS FOR LONGER THAN YOU EXPECT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO. >> JULIA DAVIS, WHAT ABOUT WORD OF MOUTH? WHAT ABOUT THE PERSON WHO IS USING THE SOURCES THAT MOLLY TALKS ABOUT BUT THEN TELLS OTHER PEOPLE, WHO DON’T HAVE ACCESS TO THAT, THAT MUST BE A DIFFICULT DISCUSSION BECAUSE IT WOULD BE HARD TO PROVE TO THAT PERSON THAT PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY SAID THIS, OR WHAT THE REAL TRUTH IS .>> IT IS VERY DIFFICULT. BUT I Mull THAT WHEN THEY Realize THE MAGNITUDE OF WHAT’S HAS CHANGED IN THEIR SOCIETY IN THEIR LIFE, THEY WILL REALIZE THAT, COMPARED WITH THE MAGNITUDE OF WHAT PUTIN HAS DONE, AND THEY ARE ON A SINKING SHIP WITH THEM, I See IT’S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THEY START UNDERSTANDING THAT THE PROPAGANDA IS ONLY THAT AND START REALITY SAYING THE UGLY REALITY OF PUTIN’S WAR IN UKRAINE, IT WILL Intend A Mas.
